rotax 912 uls vs 912is

Paul Bertorelli is Aviation Consumers Editor at Large. Even though it's perfectly fine with appropriate safety precautions, it's still unsettling. The 912iS with the sport upgradesips fuel (<3.5 gph), and maintains at least 110 KIAS through 12,000 MSL. Ill leave this forum to the CT crowd who know that very capable airframe. The highly reliable and efficient entry-level motor for light aviation aircraft manufacturers. Pilots are cautioned that the 912 engine is not suitable for: The manual states that Rotax gives no assurances that the engine is suitable for use in any aircraft, and that the engine may seize or stall at any time, which could lead to a crash landing. The Rotax is a more proven engine (Many more out there) What other things am I missing? Carbs are never "better" in terms of performance the only potential benefit of using carbs would be that , in some scenarios, they are simpler to troubleshoot and fix and don't need electricity to run. This was done at multiple altitudes. While from different manufacturers the two airframes I tested were more alike than different. I keep reading about 912 iS being a smoother running engine . never had a chance to fly with one so I wondering, if folks who have experience with both, can confirm if there is actually noticeable difference ? We leave passenger aircraft to other magazines or websites. Its expensive but in this case you get what you pay for and given the comfort, performance and reliability, its well worth it for us. While not especially hard you can hardly get in trouble with such equipment on a modern, liquid-cooled Rotax you nonetheless have to fiddle with levers and knobs, and keep an eye on instruments. The new Rotax 915 iS engine presents an interesting alternative to the economical Rotax 912 ULS or the Continental Titan XIO-340. You do not have permissions to reply to this topic. Ive been loving your reports! To expand the data envelope, multiple aircraft were refitted with the 912 iS. Thanks, George. We have been having to do I have 40 hours on my new 912iS and it has performed flawlessly. I believe this is because of the slightly lower compression ratio but I could be wrong on that. Turbo exhaust failure makes for a great blow torch. I was replying to Jay who said he was doing a SS build with a 915 and was hoping to see what he mentioned in his post. Rotax 912iS versus the 914 Turbo - Which One. Please contact Just Aircraft. Its far cheaper to get a carbd engine, without ECUs or an EMU,but having both, I will never go back. Our expectation is to have 400 engines out in the fieldby year end, Marc added. occupation. Our price is lower than the manufacturer's "minimum advertised price." The 912is has a few minor Differences/Improvements but the rest of the engine is essentially the same. In power mode, it runs at about Lambda 0.8 or 0.9. Diesel engines from SMA, Thielert and Austro do a bit better than this at 0.35, but when mogas versus Jet-A or diesel prices are factored, the fuel operating costs for these engines are more comparable. Gas vs. Diesel Rotaxs tests validate a trend thats been apparent in the automotive industry for two decades. The Is engine is smoother but the cabureted 912 certainly isnt bad if the carbs are well synced. Most comparison was done in a Tecnam P92 Echo Classic. When I can Ill look myself, perhaps I will add to this comment. (Tom, do you concur?). Greaser! In the interest of getting this out now (Im away from my office), I will just say Id be surprised if that kind of information is not on the FlyRotax website. I think LSA/SLSA is the way I want to go and am trying to figure it out. The Stock Box proved most helpful in observing many factors about the new engine. This decision can be reversed. ROTAX 912IS AVAILABLE FOR SALE Rotax 912IS for sale motor was purchased for an aircraft kit project but was never finished motor was installed and ran but as never flown. Plugging that number into Rotaxs data reveals a to-TBO cost savings of about $13,000not quite the total overhaul nut, but no trivial sum, either. Facts: 4-cylinder 4-stroke liquid/air-cooled engine with opposed cylinders The 914 cruises at 35 inches manifold continuous. Rotax's 915iS uses the same displacement as the 912iS. Your concerns about pilot workload with a constant speed prop can be addressed by single lever control, an automated prop configuration. I have been thinking ULS for great history, lower cost, lower weight, etc. In terms of power, our 912iSc sport engined P2008climbs out of Mammoth Lakes on a 90 degree day, with full tanks, two on board, one bag,at 1000fpm at 80KIAS. Just pursue a PPL if one wants to increase the complexity, thats what its there for, and its not at all difficult to do. Overall I would argue better minds than ours made a good call. Please update your cookie preferences to see this video. 40 inches manifold or 115% power as Rotax calls it is limited to 5 minutes. I like the 914 because it is smoother, quieter and substantially more powerful! The 915iS fuel injected, turbocharged, and intercooled engine can produce 141 horsepower for five minutes, then sustain 135 horsepower indefinitely. The short TBO and lack of certification for use in factory-built type certificated aircraft initially restricted its worldwide market potential. 75mm, P.C.D. engine management system. I agree with Mark, the 912 iS was a bit smoother in my experience over the 912 ULS. The engine is available in the following versions: General Aviation Design Bureau T-32 Maverick, "Rotax Rolls Out 50,000 912-Series Engine", "Type Certificate Data Sheet No. and ROTAX factory in Gunskirchen, Austria. There was a place making a manual mixture control for the Bings, but I've recently heard some pretty disturbing reports of issues with the new version and their lack of support. Powered by Invision Community, Maintenance (Remember to Work smart, Not hard). It is more than most sport pilots may prefer and more than some should manage perhaps. At this setting the 914 is making a lot more horsepower that a 912. There has been much made of early issues with the 912iS. This website uses cookies to manage authentication, navigation, and other functions. I've yet to dig through the manual, guys, but I think Andy nailed it. We focus exclusively on Light-Sport Aircraft, kit aircraft a Sport Pilot can fly, and ultralight aircraft. Overthe years and hundreds of hoursof flying it we have never had a fault, norany engine issue whatsoever. Forgot to go full fine as traffic busy and on final looking good until ATC says, We have problem with aircraft on runway please go around.. The following are what I have discovered: 1. Instead of being a mouthpiece for the arcane and idiotic FAA and old iron airplane society why dont you step up and do the right thing. ). If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. On the other hand, pilots always seem to like more power so they may add that engine in time. All three Rotax engines are offered by Tecnam because we believe they are all good viable choices. As a result, my posts to this website may be out of date order but the good news I have lots to report. Unusually for a manufacturer of small aero-engines, Rotax publishes extensive warnings in the owner's manual about both the certified and non-certified versions of the engine design. I believe it had been started but had a very weak battery. Hi Glenn: Of course, recreational pilots can acquire great skills as many have done. Display as a link instead, Similar to Lycoming IO or Continental IO engines, which have automatic mixture . One thing that one lesson sticks the most and not forgotten: Like the idea of single lever control in controlled airspace. Based on the proven concept of the 100HP Rotax 912 S/ ULS engine the 912 iS SPORT engine offers all well known advantages of the Rotax 4-stroke engine series complemented by additional features, e.g. Heres our video on a system called Single Lever Control, which LAMA has promoted with some success to FAA for consideration in their ongoing Rulemaking update to LSA and Sport Pilot. I have seen some scary holes burned throughfancy tight cowls. Your need to keep the greasy side down may be 'cause you pushed the pistons into the sump with over boost at low engine speed. 912 UL / A / F. The highly reliable and efficient entry-level motor for light aviation aircraft manufacturers. Over the eventual 2000-hour TBO of the 912 iS, the engine will use a whopping 2800 gallons less than the ULS, for a savings of $16,800. I had some issues with gearbox, however all corrective work was in warranty. The 80hp (60kW) versions are sufficient to power the new generation of efficient motorgliders, such as the Pipistrel Sinus and the Urban Air Lambada. Mainly, though, I felt the 912iS engine is better suited to the light aircraft I cover on this website. Low-weight engine with excellent performance at high altitudes. [Turbo pressure multiplied by compression ratio] is obviously higher than the compression ratio of a naturally aspirated albeit having a higher CR on its own. Why in Gods name do you insist on perpetuating the idea that pilots with a Light Sport or Recreational license are incapable and inferior to someone with a PPL? Boththe P2008 and the Astoreare great planesjust like the Flight Design and because I like one better doesn't meanothers will. About 20 different airframes are flying today.Some 46 different manufacturers are working to prepare the new powerplant. It got me thinking - The 912iS is Fuel Injected, the 914 is turbocharged but is back to dual carbs. Marc Becker summarized, The 915iS is about 12 kilos (26 pounds) more for the engine only; 40-50 more pounds when installed and about 3,000 ($3,750 at todays exchange rates) more than the 914. It is significantly more than the 912iS, as you should expect for an engine with substantially more power and the ability to use that power up to higher altitudes. In a light sport it does all the work necessary at whatever altitude airport and density altitude operations plus it starts really easy, get's great fuel mileage for those long trips and has no instances of "rubber in the carbs". It's not terribly difficult or time consuming. Acknowledged that and hit the throttle. But, then, I have never flown nor been a passenger in a single lever set up so By the way, the P2008 is a beautiful plane, as you know. 80mm, P.C.D. Yes there will likely be some carb maintenance on the 912ULS and the 914 but overall we have seen less issues than on the 912is. To get below 3 gph, a surprisingly low consumption rate, speed dropped below100 knots true or 85 indicated. Looking forward to the fewer pneumatic synchronizations! No other modifications were done, according to Mitter, other than fuel plumbing. by jetcat3 Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:01 pm, Post In my opinion as an engineer the supercharger is safer and for that reason even with the parasitic power draw. Although weoccasionally see a pilot switch from high to low wing or vise versa it doesn't happen often. Having said that I chose FD 3 times in a row for some particular reason! For both engines, the aircraft was climbed to a specific altitude, leveled and allowed to stabilize on one fuel tank. I am getting ready to build a Sling 2, 51% EAB, with Midwest Sky Sports. Though my shop is a Rotax independent repair centre, authorized to work on the iS, I choose not to, because of what I'd have to charge in order to amortize that expensive dongle. [I] was going to go with MT props, but they seem to be unresponsive. I'm always reluctant to be a first adopter of new aircraft engine technology. Thank you so much. We are interested in development of sea plane with passenger capacity of 15 plus passenger with a turbine twin engines. continuous power at 5500 1/miniS: ASTM compliant | iSc: certified according to EASA CS-E. Dominating the market for small aircraft and kitplanes, Rotax produced its 50,000th 912-series engine in 2014. Id love to put this engine on an AeroTrek. The 914's performance only gets better and better up high and the 912 falls off normally. You just described an excellent way to make a 20 minute procedure into an all day project. you mean confidence because its well known? Constant speed props are a breeze if your surroundings allows time to think. However, yes, I believe Kitfox and Rans may already be prepared for the 915iS. Thanks! Use spaces to separate tags. Im pleased you appreciate the effort. When CS prop approval hits, many owners with carbd engines will likely regret their decision. Flying the new 915iS in an Aquila light aircraft. During our factory tour at Rotax, we politely told the engineers we would reserve judgment until the engine hits the field. Typically, ULS overhauls costs are about $13,500 to $15,000, but can be higher if valve or cylinder work is needed. ROTALK NEWS Episode 3Michael Smith's Rotax-Powered Searey Circumnavigation, the amazing Rotax-Powered Lockwood Aircam and Anthony Caere's chimpanzee rescue operations. It features liquid-cooled cylinder heads and air-cooled cylinders. The climb angle seemed vigorously steep, although this was my first experience in an Aquila aircraftso I had no basis of comparison. In addition, Mitter collected broader data that showed that the 912 iS is slightly more efficient in climb than is the ULS. The 912is is the latest in technology, full fadec w automatic lean of peak operation below 97% power. Overall both the Astore and P2008 are just physically largerthan otherLSAs so there is not a lot of difference. by drseti Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:30 pm, Post Im about to take the plunge! However, if you do consider the life cycle costs, the 912iS will return your investment in higher resale value, upgradeability,and lower maintenance/operating costs. We live in the KMNE/KDTO area and seek advice. Without providing much detail, Rotax said the 912 iS is also capable Lambda 1.3 or lean-of-peak operation. Rotax-Owner.com - 912ULS Vs. 912iS Warm Up Time Subscribe Login Forum Videos Training Support / Bulletins Blog CLASSIFIEDS FLIGHTSAFETY ROTAX NEWS Top Rotax-Owner.com This website uses cookies to manage authentication, navigation, and other functions. Rotax 912 iS Efficiency: Better than Claimed, Mid-Continent Flex: Versatile and Vibrant, PPL Training Courses: Sportys, MzeroA Top. Set up your individual rotax engine with our engine configurator. Would end the argument. It was still powerful. Will you be at the DeLand Aviation Showcase? by FastEddieB Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:36 am, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited, Constructive topics of interest related to aviation that do not match the other section descriptions below (as long as it is somewhat related to aviation, flying, learning to fly, sport pilot, light sport aircraft, etc.). In power mode, it runs at about Lambda 0.8 or 0.9. Starting was as with any Rotax 9-series engine Ive ever flown. Late to this party, I fly constant speed props and appreciate them. The Rotax 912 was first sold in 1989 in non-certificated form for use in ultralights and motorgliders. . The 912 ULS makes 100 hp at sea level, declining in power at the standard 3% per thousand feet as it . So perhaps the right answer is to add 2 more planes to my stable? [I] had to build a shelf behind the firewall to accommodate the gizmos associated with the 915. hoping it will be good choice. continuous power at 5500 1/min*** MOGAS, no hydraulic governor. An Astore with 912iS and a P2008 with the 914 :-). 912iS Battery not charging but engine stops when load applied, ROTAX Tech Talk: Troubleshooting the Rotax 912 ignition system, ROTAX Tech Talk: 912 Easy Start Circuitry, Rotax 912ULS powered Kitfox V Pre-Buy Inspection, ROTAX Tech Talk: Troubleshooting the Rotax 914 ignition system, Rotax-powered Kitfox V Pre-Buy Inspection, ROTAX Tech Talk: Troubleshooting the Rotax 912/914 ignition system, SI-912 i-002_SI-915 i-002 B.U.D.S. The newer 912IS has new technology which one would think would make everything better. Was easily resolved by a good Tech but goes to show nothing is ever perfect. which has a control box. Just want to better understand Pros and Cons of the 912iS vs. the 912ULS. Other than official Rotax pilots and select airframe builders, we were among the first to experience the powerful new engine from the worlds leading producer of engines for light aircraft. The Rotax 912 is a horizontally-opposed four-cylinder, naturally aspirated, four-stroke aircraft engine with a reduction gearbox. 2023 Leading Edge Air Foils, LLC. Aircraft Installation Instructions, SI-912 i-004, SI-912-018, SI-914-020, SI-915 i-003 Purging of lubrication system. Takeoff roll is substantially reduced. Required fields are marked *. For everyone else simplicity is probably best. Stress is actually a little less therefore with the turbo engine, he said. Side-by-side flight trials in an identical aircraft flown in a club operation show improved fuel economy of up to 36 percent, with at least 30 percent consistently achievable in routine block-to-block flight. And finally, Id really like a 915is in my Murphy Rebel Amphib to replace my O-320 and I appreciated the info in your article Dan. The Astore is not hard to get in and out of but just not as easy as the 2008. If the latter is not familiar to you, dont worry about the detail for now but see an important point below*. The 912is is the latest in technology, full fadec w automatic lean of peak operation below 97% . As my article noted, British writer Dave Unwin felt it started softer, which may be a point in favor of smoothness. The iS is a nice improvement over the ULS but is high tech for sure. Id be a bit surprised if this conservative company embraced that. Think about it, it means a ~60% cruise power increase! For that question Im a firm advocate of the injected engine. - All Rights Reserved. Thanks for reading and watching! [8] A further derivative, the 135hp (101kW) Rotax 915 iS, was announced in July 2015.[9]. Many years ago flying a 182 into Townsville combined military civilian airport aircraft everywhere more radio chat than a wireless. As you can see in the contrasting Stock Box images, we saw as low as 2.8 gallons per hour resulting, of course, in lower speed flight. [3] The 100hp (75kW) versions are used in many light sport aircraft, such as the Zenith STOL CH 701 and the Tecnam P2002 Sierra. Copyright @2018 CTFlier.com Such an aircraft is far outside our area of reporting. The Rotax 912 series is well regarded for its reliability and efficiency and is primarily targeted as . by MrMorden Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:23 am, Post Fuel needs of both 915iS and 912iS are essentially the same. And I have two customers who now have the 912 iS (neither have needed work on their engine yet). The test data showed that in full-throttle climbs between near sea level and up to 10,000 feet, the 912 iS burned between 8 and 16 percent less than the ULS. The non-certified 912 iS targets the light sport and homebuilt aircraft market and 912 iSc will be certified. Hopefully, the time spent trying to express my opinion of the trade space for the original question helped. I would buy another 912iS if I were to build another A/C. by FastEddieB Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:48 pm, Post You have allowed cookies to be placed on your computer. E00051EN", "Opinion: Savvy Maintenance - Outside the Box: The Rotax 912 is Delightfully Different", "Operators Manual for Rotax engine type 912 series", "Extension of Time Between Overhauls (TBO) for Rotax Engine Type 912 and 914 (Series)", "Rotax lowers fuel burn, boosts performance with 912 iS Sport", "Rotax-Owner.com - ROTAX 915 IS: BRP UNVEILS A NEW TURBOCHARGED ROTAX AIRCRAFT ENGINE", The aircraft engines section of the official Rotax company website, 914 UL 115 hp Turbocharged Engine Datasheet, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rotax_912&oldid=1125348597, Rotax 912ULS 100hp (75kW) installation in a, use in situations where a safe landing cannot be made, night flying (unless equipped with redundant electrical power), or, Shaft with flange for fixed pitch propeller, P.C.D. With the CS prop onit, itwill likely be the fastest of all of the LSAs and the fit, finishand refinement of this airplane is beyond compare. Carburetors are old technology, not well suited to different altitudes, step up to the 1980's and get a fuel-injected engine. by FastEddieB Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:11 am, Post The 912is is the first full fadec aviation engine with auto lean of peak and it has been a challenge. Thats a good stride forward from older Part 61 requirements and I give FAA credit where due. The new Sport Pilot rule makes flying affordable! List ByDanJohnson.com all LSA Services each one verified to have the airplane or expertise you seek. When I hear negativity about the 914 it is nearly always from someone who has never flown behind one. * leaded, unleaded, AVGAS 100LL, Ethanol 10** max. The 912iS has 2 stators one dedicated to engine operation and one to provide electrical power for the airplane. [3] On the 912A, F and UL the standard reduction ratio is 2.27:1 with 2.43:1 optional. I am torn between the 912ULS and 912iS. On 8 March 2012 the company displayed its 912 iS variant, a 100hp (75kW) version with fuel injection and an electronic engine management unit. January 1, 2018 in Engine/Rotax. Rotax-Owner.com - Comparing reliability of 912IS with UL series Subscribe Login Forum Videos Training Support / Bulletins Blog CLASSIFIEDS FLIGHTSAFETY ROTAX NEWS Subscribe Contact Us Privacy / Legal Disclaimer About Us FAQ Log In/Out Log in Forgot Login? Hence the push for single lever control, a simpler way to handle in-flight prop control. The 2008 is a bit longer and larger than the Astore and thus handles turbulence and cross wind landings a bit better. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. It just depends on what you want. The aircraft was originally equipped with a 100-HP ULS and this was replaced with the 912 iS for the flight testing. 912 UL / A / F 80 HP. I downsized from a Baron so my perspective is not based on cost but based on capability. We have excellent design capability skills available in metal or composites. Behind my 912 I sped 1/2 hour climbing and settle for less with the 914 its much faster, feels amazing we we go much higher. Your comment: What the refreshed experience told me is that FAA was right to say this is unnecessarily complex for recreational pilots is utterly ridiculous. To me, the 915iS is better suited to larger (heavier) aircraft or those serving particular missions, such as LSA seaplanes or aircraft operating from high elevation fields. We end up discussing pros and cons of the Rotax engines regularly. The Rotax 912 series engine powers dozens of types of light sport aircraft, and is widely considered one of the most reliable reciprocating engines available today. All rights reserved. Please update your cookie preferences to see this video. This page was last edited on 3 December 2022, at 14:57. Forgive my ignorance, but if a 912 ULS or 914 UL engine loses electrical power, what happens to the functionality of these carbureted engines? I found the engine to fly flawlessly in my experience and powerfully! However, at the most basic level of Sport Pilot certificate, requiring only 20 hours of dual and solo, I dont believe a pilot should be reasonably expected to also learn about about in-flight prop adjustment; he or she may have no need or desire to acquire that skill. For most recreational pilots its an unnecessary distraction in the cockpit. Beginning the build on my S-20 and I am torn between these two engines. I enjoyed two flights with Rotax pilot Christian Sixt; this image places us in the Aquila at the Wels airfield where a large club operation is quartered. A highlight for private pilots and enthusiasts, this limited-edition design of our popular Rotax 912 iS Sport aircraft engine comes with a unique service and warranty package. Bill Hertzel Rotax 912is North Ridgeville, OH, USAClicking the "Thank You" is Always Appreciated by Everyone. At altitudes needed for California cruising there's a 20kt difference. M O S A I C One difference from prior experience was the Stock Box instrument (more formally, Stock Flight Systems Engine Monitoring Unit or EMU) developed by Michael Stock incollaboration with Rotax. We expect the 912 iS overhaul costs to be higher than the ULS, but we dont yet know how much higher. Got it, thanks for clarifying. FAA Regulation Update Fall 2022. Earlier this year, Rotax. With that said and nearly 1500 hours divided between all three Rotax engines the 914 is nearly always my first choice to pull out of the hangar. Reconsider Cookies Upload or insert images from URL. Pasted as rich text. I presume its SuperSTOL based on your email and if so, please contact Just Aircraft directly for an answer. Flying Sting S4 ( N184WA ) out of Illinois. Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by kicktireslightfires, Jun 16, 2020. ROTALK NEWS Episode 5Rotax-powered Sling aircraft from The Aircraft Factory, the AVMAP Navigation and engine monitoring system, and the Rotax powered Tucano Experimental and Light-Sport Aircraft.

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